Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
Well fuckign said.
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
You talk like a bad text book. I suspect because in real life you're really not too smart. You put a lot of big words together to impress people but don't really say anything. Nothing of interest anyway.
anything.
gamgee is a nobody mosquito of a human being so i just block him.
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
While I agree we are in for changes, the question is, whether we will be
in control of the changes due to a conscious decision to veer off a path with undersirable results and take one with a more desirable outcome.
Or will we simply be smacked in the face by reality and forced when
things go awry?
I'm guessing the latter. We will continue with bad practices until
things collapse, rather than avert the problems.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:35 am
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
I don't disagree. I am saying that in the not too distant future people are going to have to become vocal on issues such as transhumanism. It
will begin with something small like an implant in your arm and then metastasize into something far more invasive, such as Neuralink. People have been writing for a long time about RFID implants.
An article from The Atlantic entitled "Why You're Probably Getting a Microchip Implant Someday - Microchip implants are going from tech-geek novelty to genuine health tool, and you might be running out of good reasons to say no" is one of many articles looking to promulgate the notion that technology IN the body is the best way forward and those
who oppose such advancements are cretinous Luddites.
Technology is going to take incredible leaps and bounds this decade especially in fields such as neural and bioengineering along with AI
and machine learning. I just hope that people are going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their bodies as, with
measurable health benefits, I can see big tech justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:37 am
While I agree we are in for changes, the question is, whether we will be
in control of the changes due to a conscious decision to veer off a path with undersirable results and take one with a more desirable outcome.
Or will we simply be smacked in the face by reality and forced when
things go awry?
I'm guessing the latter. We will continue with bad practices until
things collapse, rather than avert the problems.
I guess the latter also. Look at the investment banking industry as an example... there are a lot of smart people involved however rather than making changes to their practices after a financial crash, they double down and make a conscious decision to keep doing the exact same thing
that caused the prior crash. It is human nature to continue a pattern
of behaviour until reality smacks you in the face forcing you to veer
off the beaten path and onto a new untreaded one.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:12 am
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite
foolish in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness
and becoming a borg like entity is the natural progression for all
this technological progression and artificial intelligence. It may
not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near
future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI
interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Nightfox
i think humanity should lose all its freewill for the next 6 generations. it achother based on our skin color.
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite fooli in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becomi a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technologica progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Sci-fi is just a vision of the contemporary world with futuristic technology. Sci-fi is not that good in making guesses about where
things are going overall. You get better insights about humanity from writers like Nietszche or Zizek, or Huxley.
I enjoy reading Sci-fi, but its mostly fantasy. Whenever someone uses
Star Trek as some kind of window in the future, I mentally flag them as being retarded.
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 08:12 am
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
We would probably have to stop this kind of invasive progression
early on otherwise the humans of tomorrow could become enthralled
and offer only passive resistance.
You must remember that every generation has a completely different
mindset than the previous one.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:35 am
Like or ur lump it?
That is what people who want to impose their vision say. That is what people say when they want to surrender to the control of others. There
is a LOT we have control over, or can have control over. It is a
choice.
Technology can advance all it likes. Human beings need to ascertain
control over their own lives, over their environment, over the systems
which shape their world.
"Like it or lump it" is precisely the wrong attitude to have.
We should be looking to master our world, to have us in control of
changes, rather than the other way around. With technology advancing,
it becomes MORE important to make our will dominate.
I don't disagree. I am saying that in the not too distant future
people are going to have to become vocal on issues such as
transhumanism.
It will begin with something small like an implant
in your arm and then metastasize into something far more
invasive, such as Neuralink. People have been writing for a long
time about RFID implants.
An article from The Atlantic entitled "Why You're Probably
Getting a Microchip Implant Someday - Microchip implants are
going from tech-geek novelty to genuine health tool, and you
might be running out of good reasons to say no" is one of many
articles looking to promulgate the notion that technology IN the
body is the best way forward and those who oppose such
advancements are cretinous Luddites.
Technology is going to take incredible leaps and bounds this
decade especially in fields such as neural and bioengineering
along with AI and machine learning.
I just hope that people are
going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their
bodies as, with measurable health benefits, I can see big tech
justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Andeddu on Fri Oct 16 2020 05:22 pm
gamgee is a nobody mosquito of a human being so i just block him.
I have tried to reason with him however he doesn't seem to have the capacity to ignore me, or resist the temptation of typing something childish on the internet in an attempt to "roast" me. I'll just have to follow your lead and block him.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Gamgee to Andeddu on Sat Oct 17 2020 08:42 pm
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation we would be having?
I don't think people should be given a choice. It should simply be forbidden. Lets say you give people a "choice". What will then happen? You'll have some people, maybe many who use it, and some who don't. We would start to see systems change to accomodate them. Maybe banks will
use them as a convienience, pub and clubs use them for entries, schools
use them to track grade. You could legally choose to opt out, but you
may find that you get left out of many things. You may find it
impractical to go without. Maybe many companies won't hire, many
services may simply not bother to have an alternative.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for
instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
So these impants, if allowed to develop will become de-facto mandatory, because you'll increasingly have to detach from society to function
without one. Even if many people DON'T want one, they'll find
themselves in a situation where forces push them to grudgingly get one.
This is where I start to see where some luddites are coming from.
Technology never remains 'opt in'.
The reason they did this, was because they could get away with it. In tribal socities, such people would have been ejected or killed. It
actually is somewhat untrue when people say this is part of human
behaviour, because there is also an element of human behaviour
(retribution) which eliminates this and keeps it in check. That is, in
a more "natural" society, where the leaders are in proximity to those
that lead, pathological behaviour is eliminated. There are checks and balances which would moderate such things. These are gone now, and
those tasked with keeping these financial crooks in line are either powerless, weak or corrupt.
This is a problem of civilisation keeping such people separate, and therefore out of the reach of pitchforks. It is in actually BAD for our civilisation. The laws and security which protect and anonymise such
people actually can in some times, lead to a net detriment.
But.... isn't that what you and the other "transhumanism" freaks
want to happen?
I just hope that people are
going to be given a CHOICE in regards to what gets put into their bodies as, with measurable health benefits, I can see big tech justifying implants the same way as big pharma pushes vaccines.
Ahhh, so you're an "anti-vaxxer" too, eh? That fits.
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation we would be having?
If I was at a party with you guys, would this be the conversation wethat would be a very boring party
would be having?
I'm not saying I want it to happen. I'm saying it probably will happen, so I'll be making a decision whenever the time comes. As it stands, I don't really feel like I want any chips in my body.
Young people are very comfortable with technology, unlike the baby boomers and Generation X... they would be much more amenable to the idea of transhumanism than the posters here.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
I think that was "God Friended Me"? I had mentioned that in an earlier post They said a Raspberry Pi cost around $10,000 or something.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Mon Oct 05 2020 05:44 am
Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 16 2020 09:54 am
All these things are coming though, so he's going to appear quite fooli in the next decade or so. Humanity losing its self-awareness and becomi a borg like entity is the natural progression for all this technologica progression and artificial intelligence. It may not happen, because we could put a stop to it as, in the near future, people may not like the effect of low-level human to AI interaction. I guess we'll just have to
Due to what we've seen in our sci-fi, I'd think humanity could be smart enough to put a stop to it before it gets out of control. At least I'd hope so..
Nightfox
Sci-fi is just a vision of the contemporary world with futuristic technology. Sci-fi is not that good in making guesses about where
things are going overall. You get better insights about humanity from writers like Nietszche or Zizek, or Huxley.
I enjoy reading Sci-fi, but its mostly fantasy. Whenever someone uses
Star Trek as some kind of window in the future, I mentally flag them as being retarded.
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
Start Trek is more of a philosophy than a vision of the future. At
least what was inspired by the original series. It's an interesting notion that people can grow beyond the petty things that set us back to allow us to pursue pure scientific discovery and exploration. As seen
on the show, that is more or less a dream since the rest of the
universe doesn't work that way.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 10:15 am
I don't think people should be given a choice. It should simply be forbidden. Lets say you give people a "choice". What will then happen? You'll have some people, maybe many who use it, and some who don't. We would start to see systems change to accomodate them. Maybe banks will
use them as a convienience, pub and clubs use them for entries, schools
use them to track grade. You could legally choose to opt out, but you
may find that you get left out of many things. You may find it
impractical to go without. Maybe many companies won't hire, many
services may simply not bother to have an alternative.
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for
instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
So these impants, if allowed to develop will become de-facto mandatory, because you'll increasingly have to detach from society to function
without one. Even if many people DON'T want one, they'll find
themselves in a situation where forces push them to grudgingly get one.
This is where I start to see where some luddites are coming from.
Technology never remains 'opt in'.
Call it insidious but they way they'll introduce implants is by pushing smart prosthetics which will give the wearer a much more authentic
feeling and useful appendage. They'll make the blind see, and replace organs such as our liver, heart and lungs. Then the upgrades will
arrive. Prosthetics that improve on what nature has given us. Neural
chips that allow us to interface with terminals and access the internet and cloud systems along with controlling our smart homes. Struggling to catch a good night's kip? No problem, they'll make something akin to a Penfield Mood Organ which will emit a low-level relaxing frequency deep into your brain allowing you do dose off gently to sleep. These technologies are likely going to be with us within the next two
decades. None of them are going to usurp the brain's ability to think
for itself, no machine learning or true AI delegation. That will come,
but probably not within the frame of our lifetimes.
Technology is always marching forward, it cannot be stopped. We went
from cave dwellers to web-surfers in little under 10,000 years. Unless
we end up losing all our knowledge chips are going to get smaller and
more powerful and more connected to everything around us. There will always be people willing to try new things in an attempt to push
humanity further; I don't think there will be any shortage of
volunteers, especially once the celebrity endorsements appear.
You're right though. Once body mods and and implants reach a critical mass, they may as well be mandatory. They'll become part of a NEW
social contract without which you will be doomed to languish in
societies' lowest rungs. It's a terrifying prospect, but that's the
nature of progress.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 05 2020 10:22 am
The reason they did this, was because they could get away with it. In tribal socities, such people would have been ejected or killed. It
actually is somewhat untrue when people say this is part of human
behaviour, because there is also an element of human behaviour
(retribution) which eliminates this and keeps it in check. That is, in
a more "natural" society, where the leaders are in proximity to those
that lead, pathological behaviour is eliminated. There are checks and balances which would moderate such things. These are gone now, and
those tasked with keeping these financial crooks in line are either powerless, weak or corrupt.
This is a problem of civilisation keeping such people separate, and therefore out of the reach of pitchforks. It is in actually BAD for our civilisation. The laws and security which protect and anonymise such
people actually can in some times, lead to a net detriment.
Those who do it know they can get away with it with impunity. They know they're going to cause carnage and long-term suffering for so many families, but there's almost zero actual risk to them. They hide behind faceless monolithic organisations knowing they can never be identified, singled out or ran out of town by pitch-fork wielding citizens. There
are no more cheques and balances and we as a species have proven
ourselves to be docile and servile... to a point.
There was a peasants' revolt in England in 1381 where the serfs fought
for lower taxes and a new and better system. They ended up killing the Lord Chancellor, the Lord High Treasurer along with many royal and government officials causing the king to yield to their demands.
There's a lesson to be learned by today's officals so efforts can be
made to prevent history from repeating itself.
Ginger1 wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Sun Oct 18 2020 19:35:00
We see this with technology all the time. Something that is 'voluntary' becomes almost mandatory because its used as a platform. Take for instance a workplace that insists on using a messaging app which is only supported by certain new phones, thereby compelling you to update your private phone to one they need. It used to be that carrying a mobile
was purely voluntary, now try getting a job without one.
I'm experiencing this myself. And it's an unpleasant feeling - feeling detached from society or that somehow society has collectively decided
to move in a direction you're not willing to, but then feeling increasingly isolated.
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in
UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters
to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
Eventually, I asked at an information desk and was told all of the information was "now online". Not having a smart phone anymore, this
was annoying. But for an older person they're now forced to either
buy-in and deepen Google/Apple profits (and become addicted) or face
long walks negotiating escalators and crowds to then queue to see the
one information clerk. This strikes me as poor. What's the alternative though? Things move on right? We need to just get with the times...I
think that will be the inevitable answer to this in the minds of many, unless people start to push back a bit so that technology stays
optional in society. What's the good of living in a supposedly free democracy which values free choice, when your choice is now reduced
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen. Eventually, I asked at an information desk and was told all of the informati was "now online". Not having a smart phone anymore, this was annoying. But f
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on the walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a dumb phone over a smart phone. Yeah I get not wanting to be constantly interrupted, but all those notifications are under the users control and can be adjusted and turned off with granular control.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Some sort of non-binary pronouns?
I saw someone's profile online that said their preferred pronouns were It/Them. I can stand behind that.
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my body. Perhaps unless it was fairly benign, or perhaps is actually helpful (like controlling an artificial limb, if I ever need one). I've heard people talking about the governments wanting ID chips implanted in people, and I don't like that idea.
The reason I think things like implanted chips for banking will be what control us, is that these problems are easier to solve the making the blind see. We'll get that technology first.
As it is now, the revolt is conducted by those voting for populists like Trump.
It's certainly more peaceful, but is it effective?
Young people are very comfortable with technology, unlike the baby
boomers and Generation X... they would be much more amenable to the
idea of transhumanism than the posters here.
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
I've thought about taking that 30-day "dumb phone" challenge. The one thing I'd miss more than anything is map capability, I'd
need to pick up one of those Thomas' Guides we all had in the seat back pocket of our cars in the '90s.
Making notifications opt-in instead of opt-out would be nice. I'd like it if nothing tried to get my attention unless I
requested it do so. When I had a candy bar phone, I forwarded messages from specific people to a text message, and it worked
I think of the amount of time I spend looking at my phone reading social networks and think of how I could get done if I used
that time to create something instead of consuming content.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a dumb phone o a smart phone. Yeah I get not wanting to be constantly interrupted, but all those notifications are under the users control and can be adjusted and turn off with granular control.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in th event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, b I hear what you're saying about a government that's TOO powerful. People see not to care about privacy as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:13 pm
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Bob Roberts wrote to Ginger1 <=-
Until the beginning of the year, train times were printed on posters in UK train stations. Just last week, I tried to find one of these posters to work out a journey for later in the day, but they were nowhere to be seen.
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
When I traveled to the UK getting around was so easy
because I could plug in my destination into Google Maps, and it
would show me what train to take from what platform, down to the
entrance and exits of which tube stations to use. Then guide me
every step of the way.
Thats a million times better then posters on the wall. Half the
time I can't figure out the weird tables and grids on those
posters anyways.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a
dumb phone over a smart phone.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to HusTler <=-the
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on
walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't
have service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the
train with a candy bar phone.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of
the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item.
She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone
and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was
doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame
technology any day now.
Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-
I don't think I'd make the blanket statement that all of baby boomers and generation X aren't comfortable with technology. Those are the generations that started building the internet, microcomputers, BBSes, etc.. I'm more of "generation Y" and I really like technology (and my dad always had a computer at home, so I was used to that), but I wouldn't want a chip in my body. Perhaps unless it was fairly benign, or perhaps is actually helpful (like controlling an artificial limb, if I ever need one). I've heard people talking about the governments wanting ID chips implanted in people, and I don't like that idea.
I didn't make a blanket statement, it was a general one. I am
aware that the internet existed before I was born therefore not
ALL boomers are uncomfortable with technology. I was clearly
saying that there's a higher percentage of people MORE amenable
to technology from generation to generation.
I respect that you're against chipping but it'll never be sold as
a bad idea. If your mindset is as straight forward as "I will NOT
have an ID chip in my body unless I require one for a medical
purpose" then fine. But like Dennisk said, if banks and such like
said that only people who are chipped can open a deposit account,
you will be forced to override your principles to partake in
modern society.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a candy bar phone.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people in orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it for me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in the event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but
I hear what you're saying about a government that's TOO powerful. People seem not to care about privacy as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people.
I suppose it better be enough, because if it isn't... there will be MORE violence in the streets. I see that around 44% of Republicans and 41% of Democrats now say that there would be at least "a little" justification for violence should the other party's nominee win the election.
i dont think us old folks are uncomfortable with technology. we may be ignorant of some popular sites at the most.
people in their 30s and younger are fucking stupid with technology usually.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Replacements for Her/He, for those who don't know what gender they
are, or want to be. Boggles the freakin mind.
little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think
technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of
people.
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
Technology cuts both ways. I was at a Home Depot and asked one of the people orange aprons where I could find a specific item. She told me I could always load the Home Depot app on my phone and look it up myself, but she'd do it f me - like she was doing me a favor. She'll be replaced by a bot and blame technology any day now.
Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:13 pm
Unfortunately, most people are petty. I bet Gene Roddonberry didn't think that in 2020 that Western Society would think that the biggest advancements were getting people to use Xer/Xe pronouns.
What are Xer/Xe pronouns? I haven't heard of that before.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 09:15 pm
The reason I think things like implanted chips for banking will be what control us, is that these problems are easier to solve the making the blind see. We'll get that technology first.
It's easier to say no to that kind of thing though. There's been a lot
of talk about moving onto a digital currency on an account you can
track on a smart phone app. That itself is a powerful control tool.
We're talking about implants but they're not even required. I suppose
if control is what you're looking for, there are easier ways.
RFID chips are already implanted in SOME workers today. I hear
government officials in destabilised economies such as Mexico have tracking chips in the event they get kidnapped by the cartels. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I hear what you're saying about a
government that's TOO powerful. People seem not to care about privacy
as no rational person thinks the goverment is actively interested in
them. Why would the CIA, FBI, MI5, GCHQ, etc... be interested in little old me? Unless I was doing something unlawful. I think technology and surveillance represents a comfort blanket for a lot of people.
On 10-19-20 20:41, Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
I've seen people adopting other pronouns and specifying what pronouns
they want to use. I just hadn't heard them referred to as "Xer/Xe" pronouns.
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
It's easy to say no to a long of things. You can say no to having your
ID scanned when you go to a pub, its just you can't go to all the pubs.
You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may need to do other things with.
Arelor wrote to Bob Roberts <=-
For everything else, cheapo phones for the win!
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something new? It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
That's great, assuming one can access Google Maps. What if you
couldn't do that (for whatever reason)?
Maybe they don't want to be a slave to a device. Maybe they can't
afford a smart phone. Maybe they forgot their phone at home.
Or the multitudes of poverty-stricken people that barely can feed themselves and have zero money left over?
On 10/19/2020 9:55 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have
service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a
candy bar phone.
Umn, I live in a city with buses and people seem to have managed since I was a relatively young kid without the full schedule (or any schedule)
at most of the bus stops. They had printed pamplets for the routes on
the buses themselves and included some intersecting routes.
I feel like I grew up with technology. I grew up using computers and saw BBSing, PC gaming, the rise of internet at home, and now mobile devices (for a while now). I think I'm fairly technically savvy. I have noticed some younger people who seem to be mainly used to mobile devices and game consoles and don't know a whole lot about computers or technology in general.
It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
the pubs. You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it
limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may
need to do other things with.
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
The alternative is they could stop being lazy, cheap assholes and put timetables up. This "move with the times" nonsense for the MOST part is just an excuse. We've had timetables for what, decades, centuries now? And now they say they can't do it? I bet they use arguments like
"saving paper" or some other nonsense.
No offense, but these days the UK is pretty 'naff.
I don't have a problem with progress, but it should be progress, not
tech fetishism and bandwagon jumping.
It cost too much to have those posters printed and then securly hung on the walls. Much cheaper to put the train times online. That's what technology does. It makes things more effient for less money. People
need to stop fighting technology and just learn how to use it. ;-)
Thats a million times better then posters on the wall. Half the time I can't figure out the weird tables and grids on those posters anyways.
I really have a hard time understanding how anyone could want a dumb
phone over a smart phone. Yeah I get not wanting to be constantly interrupted, but all those notifications are under the users control and can be adjusted and turned off with granular control.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I feel like I grew up with technology. I grew up using computers and
saw BBSing, PC gaming, the rise of internet at home, and now mobile
devices (for a while now). I think I'm fairly technically savvy. I
have noticed some younger people who seem to be mainly used to
mobile devices and game consoles and don't know a whole lot about
computers or technology in general.
in schools they dont teach computer usage the way they did with people who are now in their 40s. not in my experience. my son is 26 now and my step daughter is 13. so i went through this a few times.
Bob Roberts wrote to Gamgee <=-
All the transit times and information are available in Google
Maps.
That's great, assuming one can access Google Maps. What if you
couldn't do that (for whatever reason)?
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed
counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
Maybe they don't want to be a slave to a device. Maybe they can't
afford a smart phone. Maybe they forgot their phone at home.
It's interesting how you associate using a smart phone with being
a slave to the device.
Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to review.
I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using"
or "owning" a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
Or the multitudes of poverty-stricken people that barely can feed themselves and have zero money left over?
I've not seen a single poverty-stricken person that doesn't have
a smartphone.
They are basically an essential service to access
benefits, banking, and access public services. If you are low
income you can google for special benefits which can include a
free or heavily discounted smart phone and service.
Your driver's license is magnetized? I hadn't heard of that being done before.
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
For everything else, cheapo phones for the win!
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something
I've used their website often for exactly that purpose, so I'd imagine the a would do it. The Walmart app does provide such, so I'd imagine it's become quite standard.
That's one example of all this crap ACTUALLY being useful... for the 99% flu and waste of server space stuff like TikTok is, someone has something practi that actually helps people get something done. _____
Kurisu Yamato
1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find
it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
not just the isle. the exact fucking place it's at.
Wow. I got to get out more. lol
I use TikTok whenever I'm on the crapper. It's very helpful to me. The app really gets things moving ;-)
On 10-20-20 15:39, Dumas Walker wrote to VK3JED <=-
@VIA: VERT/CAPCITY2
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
On 10-20-20 21:56, Kurisu wrote to HusTler <=-
I use TikTok whenever I'm on the crapper. It's very helpful to me. The app really gets things moving ;-)
That's a fair use. I personaly have a religious policy to never, ever touch their servers willingly. Self care and all that, haha. _____
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Dennisk <=-
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
It's easy to say no to a long of things. You can say no to having your
ID scanned when you go to a pub, its just you can't go to all the pubs.
You can say not to being tracked by your mobile, but it limits your mobile, and maybe locks you out of apps which you may need to do other things with.
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
--- MRO wrote ---
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
--- GINGER1 wrote ---
At 10:44 PM on 19 Oct 20, Dennisk said to Ginger1:
No offense, but these days the UK is pretty 'naff.
Yes, it's really not great. I remember in the film Shadowlands (I think it was) the American lady says to her British love interest about Britain: "Don't stop being charming [as a country] because if you're just inefficient, damp and grey there's not much going for you." Or words to
that effect. I think the UK stopped being charming a long time ago.
Dial-Up Nights BBS: +44(0)208 3633637 (9 pm - 6 am UTC)
It's a shame the 2g and 3g networks are going away, there are a ton of
great old phones that I would have loved to use, like my old Nokias in
a drawer somewhere.
My father is too arsed to use a smart phone and I am wasting money paying fo his phone. We need good dumb phones for seniors unwilling to learn technolog
My father is too arsed to use a smart phone and I am wasting money paying fo his phone. We need good dumb phones for seniors unwilling to learn technolog
It's a shame the 2g and 3g networks are going away, there are a ton of great old phones that I would have loved to use, like my old Nokias in
a drawer somewhere.
I have zero interest in TikTok, the concept, from what I've seen, does nothing for me. So I've never had it on any of my devices.
Privacy is not a matter of distrusting the government ONLY.
Your friendly system administrator knows which smartphones were active in the corporate network on which hours. With some creative correlation and scripting your friendly sysadmin can find out Dr. Jack is always alone with Nurse Mary every week, the same day of the week, at the same hour, out of their working hours.
Automated surveillance does not care for little you because it does not care for anybody. It just stores EVERYTHING. It is when your friendly sysadmin starts playing with the data when interesting bits surface.
Then there is also the matter that nobody knows the full letter of the law in their countries, since modern law is convoluted and complex and often makes no sense. NOBODY can possibly affirm they are breaking no law, since they don't know the full scope of the law - lawyers included. It is my opinion that everybody is most likely a law-breaker without knowing it. Therefore, it makes sense to take care with the data you spread.
Notice something? You are having to "clarify" your position (AKA backpedaling) once again, and to somebody besides me. Oh, and you
*DID* make a blanket statement, like you frequently and
incorrectly do.
Yeah, and if pigs could fly they'd have wings.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Sounds good. Can we agree to put it off (and not discuss it)
until then?
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
There's already been violence in the streets for 4+ months now.
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
Anyway, it sounds like you and "Andeddu" could become BFFs!
I first saw those pronouns in the mid 1990s. The person who used them was a leading autistic advocace of the say and xe was born intersex and identified as
non binary, from what I understand.
One thing about being involved in the autistic community is you get a really good education about gender and gender identity, because this is community with
a very high degree of gender diversity - many times that of the general population.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I've always wanted to demagnetize my driver's license and see what
places will do a visual inspection versus scanning a license. It
always worries me given I'm not sure how much information is on a
driver's license mag strip. I feel like asking for a copy of their
provacy policy and an opt-out form when I hand over my license.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Oct 19 2020 07:51 pm
Tr> On 10/19/2020 9:55 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
>> Print the damn posters for the times I'm on the phone or don't have
>> service, and for the elderly person I see waiting for the train with a
>> candy bar phone.
Tr> Umn, I live in a city with buses and people seem to have managed since I
Tr> was a relatively young kid without the full schedule (or any schedule)
Tr> at most of the bus stops. They had printed pamplets for the routes on
Tr> the buses themselves and included some intersecting routes.
i rode the bus to work for many years. my company paid for it. it picked me up, i fell asleep and i woke up right before i'd get to work.
i rode the bus when i was in middle school and i knew all the routes.
so i knew everything about the bus system.
i could not fucking make heads or tails out of their bus schedule. it didnt make sense most of the time in regards to what side of street it was on. there were only 2 sides of the street but sometimes it was 3 different times.
also the bus drivers didnt make sure they hit those times, they just made sure they were at the transfer center on time.
and THAT is why i'd rather drive to work.
That black strip on the back is magnetically encoded, like a credit card. I don't think anyone's tried decoding what information is being given to places that scan it to confirm your age.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Oct 20 2020 04:53 pm
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
Target scans for alcohol and for some over the counter medications, which annoys the hell out of me.
On 10/19/2020 5:09 PM, ARELOR wrote to BOB ROBERTS:
-
For everything else, cheapo phones for the win!
My father is too arsed to use a smart phone and I am wasting money paying for his phone.
We need good dumb phones for seniors unwilling to learn technology.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 04:51 pm
1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can
find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
not just the isle. the exact fucking place it's at.
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. I worked security in Home Depot years ago and they used to plant these anti theft
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I have never come across a subway or underground station with any kind of connection. Perhaps he's talking about WiFi but I still don't see that anywhere in underground stations. I see some lines such as London's Jubilee Line has 4G access but that's probably about it... so it still is a concern for most people.
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will see, because it's the only option people have. They don't have computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to services, and stay entertained.
I've thought about taking that 30-day "dumb phone" challenge. The one
thing I'd miss more than anything is map capability, I'd need to pick up one of those Thomas' Guides we all had in the seat back pocket of our
cars in the '90s.
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the world?
Does the Home Depot App direct you to the isle too? Is this something new? It's been a while since I've been to a home depot. I think I'd
need a home before I stepped into a home depot. ;-) But no kidding? If I need a 1/2 inch copper elbow for a sink the app will tell me where I can find it in the store I'm in? Seriously?
You live in this God forsaken socialist hell-hole as well? (:
It's interesting how you associate using a smart phone with being a
slave to the device. Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to
review. I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using" or "owning"
a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
in schools they dont teach computer usage the way they did with people
who are now in their 40s. not in my experience. my son is 26 now and
my step daughter is 13. so i went through this a few times.
In AZ there is a 2D barcode that's read optically.
On 10/19/2020 5:09 PM, ARELOR wrote to BOB ROBERTS:
-
For everything else, cheapo phones for the win!
My father is too arsed to use a smart phone and I am wasting money paying for his phone.
We need good dumb phones for seniors unwilling to learn technology.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies and private corporations to indiscriminately
collate all this data. I don't break the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storag
of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population who are just trying to live their lives.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 07:53 pm
Looks like "Demolition Man" is only a few decades off.
As far as dystopian societies go, I don't think "Demolition Man" is the worst! Up until Simon Phoenix arrived, everyone seem
fairly happy and there certainly wasn't any violence other than from those freedom loving sewer dwellers.
It is the point. The "problems" you highlight (they don't work without signal, they are too expensive, they are addictive)
solved.
Latest iOS tracks screen time and show you reports on where you are spending time, how many times you pickup the phone, resp
to notifications etc. It's easy to then configure your notifications so they don't interupt your day-to-day.
Latest iOS supports usage quotas that allow you to set limits to how much apps can be used, or set a time period before bedt
where the apps lock themselves so you can't use them. Yes you can override in an emergency (or not) but the point is the to
are there to control addictions.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Notice something? You are having to "clarify" your position (AKA backpedaling) once again, and to somebody besides me. Oh, and you
*DID* make a blanket statement, like you frequently and
incorrectly do.
Yeah, and if pigs could fly they'd have wings.
Anyway, we can discuss this subject again if we DO see things
like this occur in real life.
Sounds good. Can we agree to put it off (and not discuss it)
until then?
I didn't think I'd have to clarify my position as the notion that
ALL boomers are technophobes is plainly ridiculous. It's
self-evident that a boomer like Bill Gates isn't a technophobe!
Agreed. I am happy to drop it until we see real world examples of
people en masse induced (or otherwise) to have chips or other
forms of technology implanted into their person.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Google Maps allows you to download and store the maps for a city
or region on your device, so you can still use it without any connectivity. In addition most underground stations in developed counties have full coverage, so not a concern.
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I
have never come across a subway or underground station with any
kind of connection. Perhaps he's talking about WiFi but I still
don't see that anywhere in underground stations. I see some lines
such as London's Jubilee Line has 4G access but that's probably
about it... so it still is a concern for most people.
Anyway, it sounds like you and "Andeddu" could become BFFs!
No. I have genuine empathy for the elderly trying to navigate
around this increasingly complex and technological world.
Bob Roberts wrote to Gamgee <=-
I'd bet most people don't know about storing the maps. Not really
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
You stated that Google Maps won't work where there is no signal.
I stated, Google Maps allows you to cache the maps for an entire
city on your device so you don't need signal.
You stated "most people don't know about that" and "Not really
the point anyways."
It is the point. The "problems" you highlight (they don't work
without signal, they are too expensive, they are addictive) are
solved.
Latest iOS tracks screen time and show you reports on where you
are spending time, how many times you pickup the phone, respond
to notifications etc. It's easy to then configure your
notifications so they don't interupt your day-to-day.
Latest iOS supports usage quotas that allow you to set limits to
how much apps can be used, or set a time period before bedtime
where the apps lock themselves so you can't use them. Yes you
can override in an emergency (or not) but the point is the tools
are there to control addictions.
As for people that can't afford smartphones. There are programs,
as stated. Spend 10 seconds on google and you'll find them.
These programs, for the qualified, provide free or heavily
discounted smartphones and service. Now, I don't know where you
live, I'm assuming you live in a 1st world Country.
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will
see, because it's the only option people have. They don't have
computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to
services, and stay entertained.
Your rebuttal to my fact based arguments can't be "open your
eyes" or "that's not really the point". You can't refute facts
with opinion, otherwise the whole conversation is pointless.
MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
the only place i've had my id swiped or scanned is strip clubs.
Target scans for alcohol and for some over the counter medications, which annoys the hell out of me.
oh, i dont shop at target. (except for baby stuff i do.)
otherwise i find their selection of everything overpriced and
limited.
There's already been violence in the streets for 4+ months now.
And things are going to get a lot worse as the Democrats will not put up with another term of Trump and the Republicans look like they'll blame voter fraud if they lose the election. Too much discord, not a happy nation.
Heh, you'd be surprised by some seniors. Lots of old people pick technolog e fast if they *have* to. It is just that they
usually don't want to do it :-)
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if you: had a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paid attention to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhaps taking a precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in their job?
My personal experience with the internet, over heavy use for 25 years, and especially when it became weaponised through a smart phone, is that it is addictive. Not just social media, but the whole damn thing.
The psychiatry diagnostic manuals of both Europe (ICD-10) and the US (DSM-5) recognise gaming addiction as real. Internet addiction will surely be next - it fulfills all the criteria for those addicted: E.g. Pre-occupation, continued use despite evidence of harm, increasing amounts, withdrawal effects.
The parallels for me personally between alcohol and the internet were real (although of course I'm not claiming it's as harmful). To continue the analogy, making internet addicts have smartphones is like making
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing education had become watered down with the loss of programming in the 2000s. He said "There's nothing wrong with teaching kids how to use Word. We just shouldn't call it computing. We should call it what it used to be called - typing practice".
paying for his phone.
We need good dumb phones for seniors unwilling to learn technology.
Heh, you'd be surprised by some seniors. Lots of old people pick technology quite fast if they *have* to. It is just that they usually don't want to do it :-)
happy nation.
I'm pretty sure about 15-20% of the country is going to cry "voter
fraud" no matter who wins.
Ginger1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
At 9:31 PM on 19 Oct 20, Gamgee said to Bob Roberts:
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the world?
This reminds me of something I saw recently that saddened me. A
couple of weeks ago, the UK government belatedly released a Covid
tracking smartphone app, where via bluetooth it constantly sniffs
out your proximity to other app users and logs that. If one of
those other app users gets a positive Covid test, it will alert
all of those recent logged close proximity contacts. Or something
like that.
On the day of its launch, a BBC news reporter stated you would be
being "selfish" if you didn't install it.
The following day, I saw an elderly (80s) couple, wearing gloves
and masks, trying to make sense of various smart phones in a
department store. I had the feeling this was the first time
they'd been out of their house since lockdown back in March or
whenever it was. And they didn't look adept at technology.
Who knows the real story - maybe they were actually app
developers looking to upgrade to the latest iPhone and had it
rooted that same day - and I'm being horribly ageist in assuming
they were anything else. But I suspect they weren't and had gone
out because of this pressure for everyone to have a smartphone.
I know this is an example of where such technology is genuinely
useful, but it makes me feel uneasy, knowing that the
shareholders of Google and Apple must be delirious with joy that
all of this is happening.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies private corporations to indiscriminately collate all this data. I don't brea the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storage of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population are just trying to live their lives.
My father is too arsed to use a smart phone and I am wasting money payi
they have jitterbug smart phone. didnt you show him he can get porn on the p
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. I workedno, in the store everything has a place. so it will say isle L13 shelf 5 and
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to HusTler on Wed Oct 21 2020 04:50 pm
How does it work? GPS?? Do they have some kind of sensors. Ino, in the store everything has a place. so it will say isle L13 shelf
worked
5 and
Wow. That's a lot of preasure to put on the people that stock the shelves. What happens if you can't find what you're looking for? Is there like a Home Depot Cop to call?? ;-)
In San Francisco, the carriers put up microcells in the underground tubes, and got quite a bit of heat when they were asked to turn their towers off during a time of protest, to prevent people from organizing.
In many places that were farther behind the curve than we are in the USA, they skipped the copper infrastructure period and went straight to wireless. Especially in a rural country, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm slightly jealous reading some of the older columns about how much they could do in China with 2g/3g, SMS and a feature phone. ecommerce, payments, and pretty much everything else in a phone with a week-long (or longer!) battery life.
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing education had become watered down with the loss of programming in the 2000s. He said "There's nothing wrong with teaching kids how to use Word. We just shouldn't call it computing. We should call it what it used to be called - typing practice".
Your rebuttal to my fact based arguments can't be "open your
eyes" or "that's not really the point". You can't refute facts
with opinion, otherwise the whole conversation is pointless.
You're confusing facts with fiction/fantasy, apparently. "Open
your eyes" is very appropriate here. Not sure where you live, but
try expanding your tunnel-vision a little and perhaps you'll see.
Do you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a very limited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are in the
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if you: a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paid attentio to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhaps taking precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in their job?
slave to the device. Perhaps this is a personal issue you need to
review. I would imagine is quite a spectrum between "using" or "owning"
a smart phone and being a "slave" to it.
My personal experience with the internet, over heavy use for 25 years, and especially when it became weaponised through a smart phone, is that it is addictive. Not just social media, but the whole damn thing.
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
* SLMR 2.1a * The four snack groups: cakes, crunchies, frozen, sweets.
Re: Re: Dumbphones
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Oct 20 2020 09:37 am
It's a shame the 2g and 3g networks are going away, there are a ton of great old phones that I would have loved to use, like my old Nokias in
a drawer somewhere.
Now those phones are paper weights right? Now your supposed to dispose of them properly cause of the batteries. I still have all of my phones. I plan keeping them. I was stupid and tossed out my old computers. I'm not going to make the same mistake with my phones. Then again phones don't take up as muc space. ha!
HusTler
Havens BBS
(havens.synchro.net:23)
HusTler
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Oct 19 2020 05:21 pm
Privacy is not a matter of distrusting the government ONLY.
Your friendly system administrator knows which smartphones were active in the corporate network on which hours. With some creative correlation and scripting your friendly sysadmin can find out Dr. Jack is always alone wi Nurse Mary every week, the same day of the week, at the same hour, out of their working hours.
Automated surveillance does not care for little you because it does not c for anybody. It just stores EVERYTHING. It is when your friendly sysadmin starts playing with the data when interesting bits surface.
Then there is also the matter that nobody knows the full letter of the la in their countries, since modern law is convoluted and complex and often makes no sense. NOBODY can possibly affirm they are breaking no law, sinc they don't know the full scope of the law - lawyers included. It is my opinion that everybody is most likely a law-breaker without knowing it. Therefore, it makes sense to take care with the data you spread.
Information is the newest hot commodity. Even Sony has pushed a new EULA agreement which states they can do ANYTHING they wish with your data with no recourse to the end user. That includes all voice communications whilst in party chat, all messages sent and all purchasing data. It's the same with Microsoft who has previously admitted that the Kinnect camera records pretty much everything when "incative" with third parties being able to access data within a private setting. Same with Amazon's Alexa, they've had issues with privacy breaches as it's come to light that Alexa has transmitted private conversations and has sent them to databanks for "analytical" purposes. It's quite scary to think how much data is being harvested by unsuspecting users non-govermental agenices. Personally I don't want ANY of my data passed onto third party or misused by a platform holder in any way. Edward Snowden broug to light the massive NSA databank called PRISM containing pretty much all internet communication sent/recieved within the USA by its citizens.
I don't know why there's such a concerted movement by governmental agencies private corporations to indiscriminately collate all this data. I don't brea the law and I don't do anything interesting enough to warrant the collection and storage of my personal data, and this is true for 99% of the population are just trying to live their lives.
the point, anyway. I disagree about most underground sites having
coverage, too. Certainly not my experience.
I live in the UK where coverage is considered "very good" and I have never come across a subway or underground station with any kind of connection.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Bob Roberts to Gamgee on Wed Oct 21 2020 12:58 pm
Typically the poorer the country the MORE smartphones you will see, because it's the only option people have. They don't
have computers, or home internet. It's how they stay connected to services, and stay entertained.
I don't know if you read 2600 magazine, but there's a column called "The Telecom Informer" written by a telco tech. He's
traveled the world on assignments and written about the state of telco around the world.
In many places that were farther behind the curve than we are in the USA, they skipped the copper infrastructure period and
went straight to wireless. Especially in a rural country, it makes a lot of sense.
I'm slightly jealous reading some of the older columns about how much they could do in China with 2g/3g, SMS and a feature
phone. ecommerce, payments, and pretty much everything else in a phone with a week-long (or longer!) battery life.
--- GINGER1 wrote ---
At 9:44 AM on 21 Oct 20, the doctor said to Ginger1:
It's not socialist, but it's all too often a hell hole. Churchill said "Britain is the best country in the world to be rich in." I'm not rich, so maybe that's the problem.
"z" is pronounced "zed"
Could be. I'm too addicted to the NHS to return to Arizona... I'm just not looking forward to six months of leaden skys and rain. It's grim up north. (But cheap...)
As far as dystopian societies go, I don't think "Demolition Man" is the worst! Up until Simon Phoenix arrived, everyone seem
fairly happy and there certainly wasn't any violence other than from those freedom loving sewer dwellers.
I think the real point of Demolition Man is that the "perfect society" only pretended to be perfect, while hiding its problems
under the rugs, and that it was as rotten in the core as any other society.
Again, that is frequently necessary when one speaks in sweeping
generalities often. Not trying to offend you, but you CLEARLY do
that a lot. A LOT.
Wow, second time today that I'm agreeing with you. That's
excellent. I also do not see any connectivity when down in a
subway system in a big city. Not sure where Bob lives, but am
starting to think it's in a fantasy world.
Good. Very glad to hear that, too. An important point here is
that it's not just the elderly that would have trouble with things
such as described above. There are MANY middle-age people and
even some "youngsters" that have challenges with mobile and other technology. I'd be willing to be that 80+ percent of smartphone
users don't know that you can pre-download Google maps onto a
phone. Maybe 90%. Anyway...
I'm pretty sure about 15-20% of the country is going to cry "voter
fraud" no matter who wins.
--
This is nothing new. Data collection has been going on since the civil war.
The only way you can get away from it is just don't communicate with anyone. Stay off your phone, laptop, tablet whatever and nobody can listen to you. Oh.. Don't forget, nothing in the mail either.
The first Internet generation (aka Unix Greybeards) built the tech from scratch, then refined it into the modern network we have now.
The latest generation doesn't need to build the infrastructure, that was already done for them. They're building the apps that can leverage it. They're mastering how to market the tools using the infrastructure. They' using those Apps to generate not just vast fortunes but massive followings online and off.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:51 pm
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more cool if
you: a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting,
paid attentio to where you went in the store so you remember it next
time (perhaps taking precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep
someone in their job?
You mean like a Home Depot dating app? ;-)
I even got to use "xe" in my post. :D
I thought part of being non-binary was that there should not be two
pronouns. So, I get "xe", but why are there two, "Xer/Xe"?
Also, is the 'x' pronounced as a zed?
"z" is pronounced "zed"
"z" is pronounced "zed"
Cheap Chinese video cameras have been doumented to "call home" unexpectantly transferring information and I've read on a few forums some cameras sold though Amazon will send data to them. Some of this activity may be in their end user agreement, and considered tools to teach AI's to detect objects. Ima gine if you ran out of milk, and Alexa asks if you need to pick up milk because a camera saw you empty the carton? Imagine a third party exploiting this tool, looking for items to steal or blackmail you?
This is interesting to hear, we don't have the most massive underground here (105km) with our above-ground commuter rail handling a lot of the distant suburbs... but there is not a single subway here that won't have a full connection, I think only once did I drop to two bars. To be fair, I've only used Telenor and not Telia or alternatives, so I can't say if it is service provider specific.
Ginger1 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
If it's a map you need for driving, I guess a cheap dedicated sat nav could be picked up pretty cheaply. Living in a city, it's possible
still for me to get a really good city map in a compact book form which works well.
to ask a couple of members of public for help, one of whom was a very cheery chap who put me in a good mood. I wouldn't have had that if I
was just focused on the phone.
* Q-Blue 2.4 *
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It was a distributed antenna system owned by BART, and BART turned it
off. It wasn't the carriers. After BART got a bunch of negative publicity they promised not to do it again, and if fact they didn't
when an even bigger protest came up later.
Bob Roberts wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Yes, its true. I saw it myself in the Philippines. All services in
the home are delivered by the wireless companies.
I just hope that at least we're training some new Unix Greybeards, and that these new generations are
at least interested in leaning the foundations that are still at play today.
Or we may face a future that was explored in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode When the Bough
Breaks (S01E17):
I suppose it's much like Huawei phones transmitting data back to China. That example you made isn't too far from future reality. Amazon are going to have pretty much all their home technology connected to the IoT (internet of things) allowing the hub to order new lightbulbs if one
Interesting that the same is happening here. Verizon petitioned to
abandon some of the the copper infrastructure destroyed bu hurricane
Sandy and replace dialtone over copper with wireless. Not sure what's happened with that.
On 10-21-20 08:08, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I had never even heard of TikTok until several months ago when it was
in the news here for potentially being a security risk.
On 10-21-20 13:18, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
i had an amazon blu phone that was calling back to china. then they did a patch to block it and then ad companies found out a way to exploit it and show ads
Interesting. I guess the UK's infastructure is a little dated. I read that selected underground lines in London were getting upgrades in 2019. I reckon it'll be a number of years before the rest of the nation catches up. Glad your country supports underground connections though!
I guess it has something to do with the Chinese components being hard wired with an exploitable back door. I see the Blu phone is much like the Kindle which can be subsidised by ads and purchased at a discount. I purchased a bog standard Kindle (2016) which has loads of ads; there are banners, the screen saver is an ad, etc... I don't mind too much though but I'd be displeased if it happened on my phone!
The parallels for me personally between alcohol and the internet were real (although of course I'm not claiming it's as harmful). To continue the analogy, making internet addicts have smartphones is like making
and here you are on the internet
The latest generation doesn't need to build the infrastructure, that was already done for them. They're building the apps that can leverage it. They're mastering how to market the tools using the infrastructure. They're using those Apps to generate not just vast fortunes but massive followings both online and off.
It's quite amazing when you think about it. It may leave a sense of
being left behind, but it's more then just "typing practice".
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@REPLY: <5F9094FA.28344.dove-gen@nostromo.synchro.net>
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to Mro on Wed Oct 21 2020 09:53 pm
David Braben (of "Elite" fame) made a cutting comment on how computing
never heard of him, guess he's not that famous.
@MSGID: <5F9103B3.14458.dove-general@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
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Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to Gamgee on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:42 pm
veryDo you know how many elderly retired folks there are, who are on a
in thelimited/fixed income, and can't afford a thousand-dollar phone, and wouldn't know how to use all it's features anyway; that there are
You should come to New York. Free Government paid smartphones for the elderly and low income. You won't be feeling sorry for them because of phone anyway. ;-)
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Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Ginger1 to HusTler on Tue Oct 20 2020 10:51 pm
I can appreciate the convenience. But wouldn't it be even more coolif you:
a conversation, had the chance of meeting someone interesting, paidattentio
to where you went in the store so you remember it next time (perhapstaking
precious little step to resist dementia) AND keep someone in theirjob?
You mean like a Home Depot dating app? ;-)
dude, we probably have friends in real life and so does homedepot dude. homedepot guy wants you to fuck off.
we're there to get stuff to repair our homes, not develop a meaningful relationship with a person in their work place.
fuck off with that shit. who taught you that.
It's quite amazing when you think about it. It may leave a sense of
being left behind, but it's more then just "typing practice".
Could be. I'm too addicted to the NHS to return to Arizona... I'm just
not looking forward to six months of leaden skys and rain. It's grim up north. (But cheap...)
Very interesting, and worrisome. Thanks for sharing.
I agree that there are some (people and corporations) that hope this pandemic does NOT end soon. I hope that old couple didn't sacrifice
next month's grocery bill in order to buy a smartphone.
* Q-Blue 2.4 *
I haven't heard of Q-Blue in years! I'm friends on Facebook with the
author, he was a long-time caller of my BBS.
The transition from pen and paper to the digital society
has occurred so quickly that it has frozen a lot of people out of their normal routines. It's easy for me and the individuals here to
transition, we grew up using technology but to a lot of others it's an alien world to them. Big companies only care about the bottom line and cost-cutting measures equate to promotions to most middle managers.
---
* Synchronet * BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and
PCW!
Interesting. I guess the UK's infastructure is a little dated. I read
that selected underground lines in London were getting upgrades in 2019.
I reckon it'll be a number of years before the rest of the nation
catches up. Glad your country supports underground connections though!
Or we may face a future that was explored in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode When the Bough
Breaks (S01E17):
City of Ember (a good book and decent movie) also explores this quite
well. Love to see another TNG lover on the Echos.
Vk3jed wrote to Tracker1 <=-
On 10-21-20 13:18, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female and intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
Actually, those are considered "biological sex".
Gender has a number of variants - male and female, non binary, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, to name a few. There's more, but I'd have to start digging. :)
And while most of us are probably cisgender, meaning that our
biological sex and gender identiy are in sync with each other (e.g. I'm physically male, assigned at birth "male", and identify as male - or in short, a cisgender male), some people have a different gender identity
to that which they were assigned at birth (presumed from their visible
sex characteristics). These people are known as transgender.
There's a lot of complexity in humans. :)
As for intersex (which is actually more about physical sex), that's someone who is both with physical characteristics that are neither
whoole male or female. This could be an absence of one or more sexual characteristics, or a mix of male and female physical characteristics.
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and
that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However,
what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things charactertics of men. I probably would find it more comfortable to
talk to women at a BBQ about stuff than sports and cars, but that
doesn't mean I'm less 'male'. There are social stereotypes, and I
think some people think because they don't identify with the social stereotype, their gender is therefore more ambiguous. There is
evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
and here you are on the internet
I'm getting these posts via a dial-up board. But I'm still being a hypocrite, because obviously 99% of this message exchange is being routed
But on the plus, I don't have internet home and I don't have a smart phone. That's working for me.
Ah, I forgot to mention - Sweden/Stockholm was where I was referring to. On the West Coast Gothenburg is mostly tram traffic and in between is mostly above ground rail. To be fair, I think the cellular infrastructure here is just very good. I thought you guys had been upgraded a couple years back but now that I think of it, last time I was there I lost signal!
you could get it real cheap and it just had ads on your lockscreen.
i didnt have that one though.
i think after a while both backdoors were closed but it's not the best phone. would be great if i could have rooted it.
Yes, it makes me sad. I was in my local library a couple of years ago, and an elderly lady was having a fairly heated conversation with the librarian, because the council had stopped doing a key service any way but online. They'd told her to go to the library to do it there with the help of the librarian, but she was clearly upset about it. The librarian just said "Well, it's always good to learn new things." Fair point - but a bit insensitive.
There are times when I've found pencil and paper better though. Revision notes - there's evidence that it sticks better. I've only ever been able to get organised with pen and paper - I love a to-do list app or program, but I just end up playing with the software; on paper - suddenly I can start to get work done.
Awesome! I've got an NC100 - I loved it before it broke on me with capacitor issues. Found it had a certain special charm to it. Do you still use original Amstrad machines for anything productive?
By the way - on my BBS I've got an Amstrad area. Hoping to build up a reasonable software collection there for non-internet connected Amstrad machines amongst others (I've had an NC100 call me once before!)
Travelling on the tube today - a lack of connection didn't seem to put people off their phones!
i think after a while both backdoors were closed but it's not the best
phone. would be great if i could have rooted it.
If it's just the lock screen I wouldn't mind too much. The Kindle got a little annoying due to banners appearing everywhere in the main menu but it functions fine otherwise. The discount was probably worth it as it doesn't affect the eBooks or audiobooks.
What genders are there exactly? Other than beyond male, female andThere are also people who are gender non confirming where if they looked
intersex (which itself tends to have a dominant presentation or
functional form).
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However, what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
Only the person themselves can say, no one else can.
Travelling on the tube today - a lack of connection didn't seem to put
people off their phones!
So many phone zombies these days. I have a lot of screentime on my phone but I am not that bad. I am never glued to it in a public place or when I am with someone.
But on the plus, I don't have internet home and I don't have a smart phone. That's working for me.
if you say so. you sound crazy.
dont blow anybody up
City of Ember (a good book and decent movie) also explores this quite well.
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: MRO to Andeddu on Thu Oct 22 2020 10:30 pm
i had an amazon blu phone that was calling back to china. then they did patch to block it and then ad companies found out a way to exploit it and show ads
I guess it has something to do with the Chinese components being hard wired with an exploitable back door. I see the Blu phone is much like the Kindle which can be subsidised by ads and purchased at a discount. I purchased a bo standard Kindle (2016) which has loads of ads; there are banners, the screen saver is an ad, etc... I don't mind too much though but I'd be displeased if happened on my phone!
Biological sex is defined by the science of biology whereas gender is a soci construct. That's why there are so many different genders in the world.
Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-
On 10-18-20 23:58, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm not sure how much of this is real. There is biological sex, and
that results in behavioural and physical characteristics. However,
what I'm not sure of, is how we can say someone has a different gender despite having male physical and behavioural characteristics.
Only the person themselves can say, no one else can.
I am not a "blokey" man. I'm not into sports or many other things charactertics of men. I probably would find it more comfortable to
talk to women at a BBQ about stuff than sports and cars, but that
doesn't mean I'm less 'male'. There are social stereotypes, and I
think some people think because they don't identify with the social stereotype, their gender is therefore more ambiguous. There is
evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
You've brought up another dimension that I didn't touch on - gender expression or gender roles - Gender expression is how you express your gender, which may or may not conform to stereotypes or traditional
roles. In some ways, I do present as a "typical" male (with a lot of differences) - I do love sport, though more about participating and competition, rather than watching, but I also have a softer, nurturing side that comes out when it's needed, which a lot of men are afraid of expressing.
A lot of gay men identify as male, but express themselves in ways considered by our society as "feminine". That's different to actually identifying as "female", even if the resulting expression is similar is similar.
Not being transgender or non binary myself, I can't fully understand
the experience, but I can listen and I can relate with the closest experiences I do have.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Before Bandwidth / Af
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Sun Oct 18 2020 11:58 pm
There is evidence that identification with alternative 'non-binary' genders is largely cultural. That is, most people believe they are because of the external culture.
Biological sex is defined by the science of biology whereas gender is a social construct. That's why there are so many different genders in the world.
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