Re: ai shit from bbs people.
By: MRO to Digital Man on Sun Jul 05 2026 08:27 pm
I think there should be a disclaimer if you have a co-contributer. I don't Think AI should be considered just a tool.
These days, AI is also used for features like IntelliCode in Microsoft Visua > prediction like that feels like a tool to me..
Although AI tools are trained with existing data, I
still wonder about ethical usage.
When using AI tools,
you're still creating something new and different.
I feel like a more optimal use may be to use AI tools
to help aid some tasks, especially ones that are more
difficult.
ant wrote to Nightfox <=-
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Nightfox:
Although AI tools are trained with existing data, I
still wonder about ethical usage.
Hardly possible:
<https://tilde.club/~ant/pub/ethical-ai.html>
When using AI tools,
Tools are dumb, mechanical, well-understood extensions
of the person. AI is not a tool, like a screwdriver or
text editor.
you're still creating something new and different.
No, it is the Artificial Idiot that is creating for you,
at your request. This is similar to a rich and unskilled
person commissioning an artist to execute his portrait.
I feel like a more optimal use may be to use AI tools
to help aid some tasks, especially ones that are more
difficult.
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
* Synchronet * My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisur time. It's only delivered more work faster.
AI may lack a soul, but someone who IS creative, and can put the human experience into work can use AI like a paintbrush.
AI is slop because the person is creating slop, but I see no real barrier to someone using it to create something deep, meaningful. That art will stand head and shoulders above lazy slop, just as today meaningful and well constructed music stands above human created slop.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors of these tools and, yet, it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisure time. It's only delivered more work faster.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors of these tools and, yet, it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisure time. It's only delivered more work faster.
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the
dirty and thankless work for their masters, people
oursource to AI the most creating, interesting, and
difficult work -- exactly the sort of work that
elevates Man. This is a dangerous inversion of the
roles.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors
of these tools and, yet, it never seems to work out
that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisure
time. It's only delivered more work faster.
AI may lack a soul, but someone who IS creative, and
can put the human experience into work can use AI like
a paintbrush.
The level of indirection involved in using
(de-)generative AI is very high, close to decopping
the prompter from any creative work. ^^^^^^^^^
Boraxman:
AI may lack a soul, but someone who IS creative, and
can put the human experience into work can use AI like
a paintbrush.
Not anymore than a creative millionaire commisioning a
painter to make his portait. The portrait is still the
friut of the painter's creativity. The level of
indirection involved in using (de-)generative AI is very
high, close to decopping the prompter from any creative
work.
ant wrote to Nightfox <=-
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
I will repeat myself because that's what i do.
My problem with ai is that it takes the work of real people and gives no credit in most cases. it's trained itself on the work of humans, it uses github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
There's also people going around pretending to be programmers and putting out games and programs. there's some in the bbs world. they can't program a lick.
all of a sudden they are digging up something they said
they worked on years ago. and then there's 5 other things. it's obvious it was made in AI.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole from that and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i paid for claude to do it.
github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
You're not entirely wrong here, but you are wrong to a point. AI is really fancy autocorrect/text prediction. Once a model is trained (yes, using vast swaths of existing data, github, books, etc.), it takes the active context and spits out responses word-by-word ("token by token", really), based on what its algorithms indicate would be the next-most-likely-word. That word/token can be "spatchcock" or it can be "posix_spawn_file_actions_addtcsetpgrp_np" all based on the context.
The programs/wrappers that people use to interact with these models (and the "thinking" layers built into many of them) attempt to ensure that its responses make sense before they're written to the screen.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted > MR> to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole
from that and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i paid for claude to do it.
Honestly, 10-15 years before AI most people just copied and pasted from StackOverflow. Once in awhile you'd find a comment in the source code like "I grabbed this from StackOverflow". Most programming languages are ... structured. If you want to print something to a screen, there's only so many ways you can do that. It's not like writing a story, or drawing a picture.
I DEFINTELY have issues with AI- generated images, videos, and especially posts/stories that pass themselves off as being from humans. But I don't have much of an issue with it when it comes to programming.
Yeah, let the robots do the creating so we can perform menial tasks. My
conspiracy side sees those in power wanting the electorate to be
limited, marginalized, uneducated... What happens if people have time
to learn and grow on their own?
to learn and grow on their own?
Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what the oligarchs want -- uneducated, marginalized and limited. Musk and his cronies get their > jollies just thinking of a worl like that.
-dmxrob
My problem with ai is that it takes the work of real people and gives no credit in most cases. it's trained itself on the work of humans, it uses github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
There's also people going around pretending to be programmers and putting out games and programs. there's some in the bbs world. they can't program a lick. all of a sudden they are digging up something they said they worked on years ago. and then there's 5 other things. it's obvious it was made in AI.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole from that and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i paid for claude to do it.
So you're ok being a code theif? I
guess most of that may be public dom
code, IDK.
No, it is the Artificial Idiot that is creating for you,
at your request. This is similar to a rich and unskilled
person commissioning an artist to execute his portrait.
maybe because i'm good at recognizing patterns. i don't see it as only one way to make a wheel. it's straight up ripping off existing code from real people Without giving credit.
Have you ever read what you wrote dude.
You might wanna do that.
So you're ok being a code theif? I
guess most of that may be public dom
code, IDK.
You wouldn't download a car....
I was less inclined to believe this until I got drunk the other night and decided to see howYeah, let the robots do the creating so we can perform menial tasks. MyBingo. You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what the oligarchs want -- uneducated, marginalized and
conspiracy side sees those in power wanting the electorate to be
limited, marginalized, uneducated... What happens if people have time
to learn and grow on their own?
limited. Musk and his cronies get their jollies just thinking of a worl like that.
I was less inclined to believe this until I got drunk the other night and decided to see how
AI would have solved a problem at work. The problem involved interpretting multiple electronic schematics
and performing "gate-crashing" for a TTL circuit that was marginally complex. Sure enough, after reviewing
the schematic, the AI produced what frankly was complete gibberish
I do this kind of agentic engineering at work every week (using Claude Code, not drunk) and while it can struggleI'm sure there's a way to engineer the prompts to make it more efficient, but if I can see the problem and solution
with interpretting schematics and layout files, it's not hopeless and in the end can save tons of time. It's not
without its frustrations and humorous detours, but I find it much faster than most humans and correct just about as
often. Using AI agents effectively is a skill you'd likely benefit from having, but it does take practice, like any
other.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs people.Yeah but do you realize that i don't give a fuck? I really do not.
By: MRO to Dmxrob on Wed Oct 14 2026 10:07 pm
Have you ever read what you wrote dude.
You might wanna do that.
You ever realized that nobody cares what you think? Might want to do that.
AI would have solved a problem at work. The problem involved interpretting multiple electronic schematics
and performing "gate-crashing" for a TTL circuit that was marginally complex. > Sure enough, after reviewing
the schematic, the AI produced what frankly was complete gibberish -- mixing signal names, what inputs go to what
gates, but was completely authoritative. I asked it to try again two times,
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors of these tools and, ye it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisur time. It's only delivered more work faster.
I will repeat myself because that's what i do.
My problem with ai is that it takes the work of real people and gives no cre in most cases. it's trained itself on the work of humans, it uses github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
There's also people going around pretending to be programmers and putting ou games and programs. there's some in the bbs world. they can't program a li all of a sudden they are digging up something they said they worked on years ago. and then there's 5 other things. it's obvious it was made in AI.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole from tha and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i paid for claude do it.
MRO wrote to Bryn <=-
you shouldn't be uploading work related items to ai. i hope you are
using your Work's AI and not a public one.
You wouldn't download a car....
Oh but why wouldn't you if it were possible?
Scotty, Beam me down a 2026 Ford F-150 Raptor.
programming gets good, obsolescence will be a thing of the past. Why not write a program for MS-DOS that does what a Windows 10 CLI program does? W to port something to another machine, now you can. Is your computer OS not supported? Not a problem anymore.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs people.
By: Dustman to ant on Tue Oct 13 2026 01:33 pm
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors of these tools and, ye it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisur time. It's only delivered more work faster.
The System I'm sure is designed to keep us busy and dependent. It is designed to ensure our free time is taken up. The default is to find work for us to do.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 13 2026 08:11 pm
I will repeat myself because that's what i do.
My problem with ai is that it takes the work of real people and gives no cre in most cases. it's trained itself on the work of humans, it uses github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
There's also people going around pretending to be programmers and putting ou games and programs. there's some in the bbs world. they can't program > > a li all of a sudden they are digging up something they said they worked
on years ago. and then there's 5 other things. it's obvious it was made in AI.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole from tha and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i paid > > for claude do it.
I think AI being able to program will be a boon.
Anyone will be able to create free and open software. From a prompt, you could open up possibilities where there were not before. Sure, you can categorise it as lazy, but why not?
I write programs, and it is laborious. A lot of the work is trying to maintain data structures and program flow in your head. You are having to use your mind to model the machine. The machine can model and understand itself, so you don't have to.
Think of assembler. People used to program in Assembler a long time ago, but > rarely now. We use higher level languages, which output machine code. The
compiler understands that level better than us, and most of the time, does a better job.
AI programing is akin to a compiler that generates source.
MRO wrote to Bryn <=-
you shouldn't be uploading work related items to ai. i hope you are using your Work's AI and not a public one.
The fun is using the public model's and letting them take your work.
My company is all in on m$ so we get co-pilot but all the managers
complained because the news told them chatgpt is better, so now when
we go to any AI home page it says "Stop - Co-pilot is included, continue anyway?" and they all do!
It's just gonna put me out of work as it can complete the schedule in
about 15 mins with a few questions where it took me 2 days. Mistakes? Honestly... about on par with the ones I (or any human) would make when dealing with 75 vehicles, 180 drivers, 24/7 schedules and constant break- downs.
I still believe AI is a tool and used right it will make life easier, but
I don't think it should be used for everything.
Re-reading this it's in the wrong area now but whatever.
BTW - writing this in a paperclip II clone I had Claude whip up last night
in 25 minutes. LOL All keystrokes just the way my fingers remember them! ;) >
I think AI being able to program will be a boon.
AI programing is akin to a compiler that generates source.
AI programming gets good, obsolescence will be a thing of the past. Why not write a program for MS-DOS that does what a Windows 10 CLI program does?
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Sat Oct 17 2026 01:09 pm
programming gets good, obsolescence will be a thing of the past. Why not write a program for MS-DOS that does what a Windows 10 CLI program does? W to port something to another machine, now you can. Is your computer OS not supported? Not a problem anymore.
Got a niche interest/desire that ONE guy solved with a closed source program they are charging a bunch of money for because they are the only player in the game? Not a problem anymore :).
You wouldn't download a car....
Oh but why wouldn't you if it were possible?
Scotty, Beam me down a 2026 Ford F-150 Raptor.
Exactly :). It's from an old anti-piracy commercial saying "Don't copy that floppy!". Of COURSE you would download a car!
my brain until AI can do it without
much optimization. I can see the benefit if they were extremely complex circuits, but what the above average has
granted me -- seems like it still has a ways to go before I would trust it without doing nearly as much work to
verify what it's giving me. Having access to it now in the state that it's in, and knowing how it's been advertised
to me (by more than the mass media and the companies themselves mind you), my > alarm bells have started ringing as to
what the goal of me using it actually is.
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs people.
By: Boraxman to Dustman on Sat Oct 17 2026 01:03 pm
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs people.
By: Dustman to ant on Tue Oct 13 2026 01:33 pm
Instead of making robots the new slaves, doing the dirty
and thankless work for their masters, people oursource
to AI the most creating, interesting, and difficult
work -- exactly the sort of work that elevates Man.
This is a dangerous inversion of the roles.
This is always what's promised to us by the inventors of these tools and, ye it never seems to work out that way. AI hasn't delivered the promised leisur time. It's only delivered more work faster.
The System I'm sure is designed to keep us busy and dependent. It is designed to ensure our free time is taken up. The default is to find work for us to do.
Another thing we need to ask ourselves is not only is it not doing what was promised, why is it continuing to go on when it's been reported to
not be profitable for the ai companies.
There must be something AI is getting out of us that is of use. so
what is that? learning about us and what we do and what we like?
getting our personal information?
Is this the next level of aquiring personal information of everyone possible?
People are in love with AI and are blind to the situation. They'll
defend it. "It's a tool" "I'm like a project manager".
When something is too good to be true, it usually is.
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-program
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Sat Oct 17 2026 01:09 pm
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 13 2026 08:11 pm
I will repeat myself because that's what i do.
My problem with ai is that it takes the work of real people and gives no cre in most cases. it's trained itself on the work of humans, it uses github and other sources. People who use it think they are project managers, which i think is sad.
There's also people going around pretending to be programmers and putting ou games and programs. there's some in the bbs world. they can't
paida li all of a sudden they are digging up something they said they worked on years ago. and then there's 5 other things. it's obvious it was made in AI.
Last weekend i had ai make me an irc to telegram bridge because i wanted to gravitate away from the teleirc model i was using. i know it stole from tha and other sources but no credit was given. on top of that i
for claude do it.
I think AI being able to program will be a boon.but
Anyone will be able to create free and open software. From a prompt, you could open up possibilities where there were not before. Sure, you can categorise it as lazy, but why not?
I write programs, and it is laborious. A lot of the work is trying to maintain data structures and program flow in your head. You are having to use your mind to model the machine. The machine can model and understand itself, so you don't have to.
Think of assembler. People used to program in Assembler a long time ago,
rarely now. We use higher level languages, which output machine code. The compiler understands that level better than us, and most of the time, does a better job.
AI programing is akin to a compiler that generates source.
oh yeah ai is great but i'm a negative guy so i'm trying to look at the big Picture. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
Just use ai to program everything? No humans will create anything new.
Use ai to think for you? People become even more stupid.
Then we use ai to plan and fight our wars.
I don't think we've seen such a huge leap in a short time in technology
in our Lifetimes.
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Sat
Oct 17 2026 01:09 pm
I think AI being able to program will be a boon.
Agree, but just not sure who it will be a boon for.
AI programing is akin to a compiler that generates source.
I use that analogy sometimes. There was a time when programmers looked
at compilers as a crutch ("real programmers write in assembly language
or even machine code!") - but that sentiment went away pretty quickly
and the same will happen with agentic progrmming.
AI programming gets good, obsolescence will be a thing of the past. Why not write a program for MS-DOS that does what a Windows 10 CLI program does?
AI doesn't magically take away the constraints (e.g. limited
addressable memory) of legacy systems or the lack of infrastructure
(e.g. TCP/IP stack), so while it could be used for such a thing (port a Windows CLI program to MS/PC-DOS), it can't work miracles. Given that task, the first thing the AI agent would likely do is choose a "DOS extender" to run the ported program under to get access to more memory. And that's not really writing a program for MS-DOS anymore. --
When something is too good to be true, it usually is.
It is difficult to monetise. Its a bubble, like crpyto or other hyped tech. Machine Learning is clearly useful, but when people are able to run their own > models internally, how will they make money?
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Mon Oct 19 2026 08:43 am
When something is too good to be true, it usually is.
It is difficult to monetise. Its a bubble, like crpyto or other hyped tech. Machine Learning is clearly useful, butmoney?
when people are able to run their own > models internally, how will they make
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
here's another thing. if you hire a web designer or whatever and all he does is use AI, why should you pay him? you can
just run it on ai instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all the work? it becomes more than Just
being a tool.
AI doesn't magically take away the constraints (e.g. limited addressable memory) of legacy systems or the lack of infrastructure (e.g. TCP/IP stack), so while it could be used for such a thing (port a Windows CLI program to MS/PC-DOS), it can't work miracles. Given that task, the first thing the AI agent would likely do is choose a "DOS extender" to run the ported program under to get access to more memory. And that's not really writing a program for MS-DOS anymore. --
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Mon Oct 19 2026 08:43 am
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
I agree. I don't think AI itself is going anywhere. This feels very much like > the dotcom bubble back in 2000. Lots of companies went under during and after > that, but the web itself stuck around. AI is going to stick around but it's
going to result in a lot of collateral damage before it normalizes.
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack.
Dmxrob wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs people.
By: poindexter FORTRAN to ant on Wed Oct 14 2026 07:39 am
Yeah, let the robots do the creating so we can perform menial tasks. My
conspiracy side sees those in power wanting the electorate to be
limited, marginalized, uneducated... What happens if people have time
to learn and grow on their own?
Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what the
oligarchs want -- uneducated, marginalized and limited. Musk and his cronies get their jollies just thinking of a worl like that.
Dustman wrote to Boraxman <=-
I agree. I don't think AI itself is going anywhere. This feels very
much like the dotcom bubble back in 2000. Lots of companies went under during and after that, but the web itself stuck around. AI is going to stick around but it's going to result in a lot of collateral damage
before it normalizes.
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack. --
Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
I recall seeing one though, which I'm sure was a 3rd party network
stack. It was around 1996ish that I saw it, so I don't remember who
made it, but I remember trying one and running a text-based web browser
in DOS (maybe a DOS port of Lynx).
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-own
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Mon Oct 19 2026 08:43 am
When something is too good to be true, it usually is.
It is difficult to monetise. Its a bubble, like crpyto or other hyped tech. Machine Learning is clearly useful, but when people are able to run their
models internally, how will they make money?
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
here's another thing. if you hire a web designer or whatever and all he does is use AI, why should you pay him? you can just run it on ai
instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all the work? it becomes more than Just being a tool.
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to Digital Man on
Mon Oct 19 2026 08:49 am
AI doesn't magically take away the constraints (e.g. limited addressable memory) of legacy systems or the lack of infrastructure (e.g. TCP/IP stack), so while it could be used for such a thing (port a Windows CLI program to MS/PC-DOS), it can't work miracles. Given that task, the first thing the AI agent would likely do is choose a "DOS extender" to run the ported program under to get access to more memory. And that's not really writing a program for MS-DOS anymore. --
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack. --
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to Digital Man on
Mon Oct 19 2026 08:49 am
AI doesn't magically take away the constraints (e.g. limited addressable memory) of legacy systems or the lack of infrastructure (e.g. TCP/IP stack), so while it could be used for such a thing (port a Windows CLI program to MS/PC-DOS), it can't work miracles. Given that task, the first thing the AI agent would likely do is choose a "DOS extender" to run the ported program under to get access to more memory. And that's not really writing a program for MS-DOS anymore. --
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack. --
There are DOS programs that can speak TCP.
I agree. I don't think AI itself is going anywhere.
This feels very much like the dotcom bubble back in 2000. Lots of
companies went under during and after that, but the web itself stuck
around. AI is going to stick around but it's going to result in a lot
of collateral damage before it normalizes.
Matthew Munson wrote to DUSTMAN <=-
I want hardware prices to stabalize and I want AI not to be cooled by water.
I want hardware prices to stabalize and I want AI not to be cooled by
water.
does is use AI, why should you pay him? you can just run it on ai instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all the work? it becomes more than Just being a tool.
There really isn't a dilemma here.
Either you do it yourself, or you get someone to do it for you. If you get someone else to do it, you pay them.
Either way, that person is handing you a product that you didn't do yourself. > If you COULD do it yourself easy, why would you hire someone?
AI doesn't change that at all.
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack. --
There are DOS programs that can speak TCP.
I've used mTCP tools to use FTP sites and telnet internet hosts. I've used a > gopher client on DOS to access the internet. Its build into the application,
rather than a seperate stack.
There is also the Arachne web browser.
The difficulty is getting the stack to fit in memory.
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to Digital Man on
Wed Oct 21 2026 09:03 am
Digital Man wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to Digital Man on
Mon Oct 19 2026 08:49 am
AI doesn't magically take away the constraints (e.g. limited addressable memory) of legacy systems or the lack of infrastructure (e.g. TCP/IP stack), so while it could be used for such a thing (port a Windows CLI program to MS/PC-DOS), it can't work miracles. Given that task, the first thing the AI agent would likely do is choose a "DOS extender" to run the ported program under to get access to more memory. And that's not really writing a program for MS-DOS anymore. --
Isn't there a TCP/IP stack for MS-DOS.
MS/PC-DOS did not come with a TCP/IP stack and Microsoft never sold one for it as an add-on either. So, "writing a (TCP/IP) program for MS-DOS" means writing/including/depending-on a 3rd party network stack. --
There are DOS programs that can speak TCP.
So the original proposal was (AI) porting Win32 console tools to MS/PC-DOS. Whether there were ever any DOS programs that embedded their own TCP/IP/Network-driver stack into themselves is kind of a side point
I think. --
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-
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Nightfox wrote to Digital Man <=-
I recall seeing one though, which I'm sure was a 3rd party network
stack. It was around 1996ish that I saw it, so I don't remember who
made it, but I remember trying one and running a text-based web browser
in DOS (maybe a DOS port of Lynx).
There were third-party commercial TCP/IP stacks, if memory serves, and
the Crynwyr packet drivers for DOS. I used the Crynwyr drivers for
some
time with NCSA telnet and Kermit way back when.
Kali used the Crynwyr drivers to support IPX games over IP.
I wouldn't have thought that in 2026 that I'd type "Crynwyr", let
alone
several times...
I remember looking up the pronunciation online and finding a .wav file
on an early web site - and thinking that was pretty cutting edge
technology.
(Cruh-noor, accent on the first syllable with a roll of the "r"s. I suspect it's Welsh)
Yeah i've done all that just to play around years ago. I don't think I had any memory issues. I think i used memmaker so that might be why.
Maybe. I was just saying that as AI becomes a hyper-competent programmer, it will change our perception of what hardware is obsolete.
Obviously hardware that is locked down will be an issue, but anything that could be brought to life, or extended through AI will.
--
I do think there will be more of that, especially through reverse engineeri
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Haven't heard of Crynwyr, but there were I think TCP stacks for DOS.
Quake also supported TCP/IP in the DOS version if I recall correctly.
Dustman wrote to Matthew Munson <=-
I too would like hardware prices to stabilize (or maybe even come
down.) I can't even entertain the idea of building a new PC with where they're at now.
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: MRO to Boraxman on Wed Oct 21 2026 01:36 pm
Yeah i've done all that just to play around years ago. I
don't think I had any memory issues. I think i used
memmaker so that might be why.
I think QEMM and its memory optimizer were a bit better than
memmaker. I remember being able to get a bit more free regular
memory with QEMM.
They were usually but there were a few programs that wouldn't work and play well with QEMM. I cannot remember if arachne was one of them or not. On my DOS machine, I had boot options where I could boot into environments managed by QEMM and an environment or two managed by the MS-DOS memory management.
Wait, am I trying to kid myself? Prices will never drop...maybe a bit
to get people to buy again, but they're not going to be anywhere near
what they were.
Dreamweaver wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
Wait, am I trying to kid myself? Prices will never drop...maybe a bit
to get people to buy again, but they're not going to be anywhere near
what they were.
I remember when 16 MEG of RAM was $800.00. Prices came back down
after supply was back. Give it time.
Thankfully, I got a deal on a computer with more memory than I neededI have a ryzen 7 5700 with 32gb ddr4 ram and a radeon 9600xt, but I
before prices went up. I was able to take some memory from my desktop
and put it into a homelab PC I set up and still get by just fine.
BTW - writing this in a paperclip II clone I had Claude whip up last night in 25 minutes. LOL All keystrokes just the way my fingers remember them! ;)
Got a niche interest/desire that ONE guy solved with a closed source program they are charging a bunch of money for because they are the only player in the game? Not a problem anymore :).
Yup. Sucks to be that "ONE guy" now. :-)
It is difficult to monetise. Its a bubble, like crpyto or other hyped tech. Machine Learning is clearly useful, but when people are able to run their own models internally, how will they make money?
I see the future for AI, but "AI as a service" may be a dead end.
Dmxrob wrote to Tiny <=-
And riddeled with security bugs... this is the problem with all the
vibe coders nowadays, they are releasing tons of stuff, and it's the
more insecure "stuff" you ever saw.
Dmxrob wrote to Boraxman <=-
I predict in less than 5 years we won't need all this compute power and data centers. It's a massive bubble.
Dmxrob wrote to Boraxman <=-
I predict in less than 5 years we won't need all this compute power
and data centers. It's a massive bubble.
I think it's interesting seeing this huge push for data centers,
then watching people set up effective local models on Mac minis.
AI data centers are all part of a surveillance state. I'm sure when
the commercial AI bubble bursts, the government will step in and
take control of whoever has the most favor with the administration.
... What's behind this door? What door?
I predict in less than 5 years we won't need all this compute power and
data centers. It's a massive bubble.
I think it's interesting seeing this huge push for data centers, then watching people set up effective local models on Mac minis.
AI data centers are all part of a surveillance state. I'm sure when the commercial AI bubble bursts, the government will step in and take control of whoever has the most favor with the administration.
I think it's interesting seeing this huge push for data centers, then
watching people set up effective local models on Mac minis.
they're not setting them up on mac minis.
and i dont think you understand how this ai shit works.
You can now! I mean you still have
pay for parts, and assemble it, but
can download the plans for 3d printe
cars now :D
phigan wrote to DaiTengu <=-
There's actually a place not far from
my house that 3D prints cars for
concepts and paint demos and all kinds
of things. They probably literally
download cars every day!
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-yourself.
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Oct 21 2026 09:01 am
does is use AI, why should you pay him? you can just run it on ai instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all the work? it becomes more than Just being a tool.
There really isn't a dilemma here.
Either you do it yourself, or you get someone to do it for you. If you get someone else to do it, you pay them.
Either way, that person is handing you a product that you didn't do
If you COULD do it yourself easy, why would you hire someone?
AI doesn't change that at all.
that guy isnt working. he's running it through AI. i can run it
through AI Too. Why would i pay a human?
instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all th work? it becomes more than Just being a tool.
There really isn't a dilemma here.
Either you do it yourself, or you get someone to do it for you. If
you get someone else to do it, you pay them.
Either way, that person is handing you a product that you didn'tyourself.
do
If you COULD do it yourself easy, why would you hire someone?
AI doesn't change that at all.
If your argument is "I could have done that myself", then do it
yourself. If for whatever reason you don't want to do it yourself,
or can't do it yourself, or don't have the time, or the skills,
or whatever, and you get someone else to do it for you, pay them.
Just like every other thing in your life which you could have done
yourself, but outsource to someone else.
if i pay a kid to cut the grass and instead he goes online and pushes a button and my grass is cut, why don't i just push that button instead?
Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: MRO to Boraxman on Tue Oct 27 2026 08:49 pm
if i pay a kid to cut the grass and instead he goes online and pushes
a button and my grass is cut, why don't i just push that button
instead?
If it's as simple as a button press, sure, do that. But most agentic
tasks (e.g. creating computer applications) are more involved
than that and require some intimate knowledge of the subject matter
to get good results.
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Wed Oct 28 2026 08:32 am
instead of him. is he a designer if he's just using AI to do all th work? it becomes more than Just being a tool.
There really isn't a dilemma here.
Either you do it yourself, or you get someone to do it for you. If
you get someone else to do it, you pay them.
you're hiring someone for their skills and ability.
Either way, that person is handing you a product that you didn'tyourself.
do
If you COULD do it yourself easy, why would you hire someone?
that's exactly what i'm saying. why should they hire a person if
they're just going to run it through ai. the company can do that themselves.
AI doesn't change that at all.
it absolutely does.
If your argument is "I could have done that myself", then do it
yourself. If for whatever reason you don't want to do it yourself,
or can't do it yourself, or don't have the time, or the skills,
or whatever, and you get someone else to do it for you, pay them.
Just like every other thing in your life which you could have done
yourself, but outsource to someone else.
if i pay a kid to cut the grass and instead he goes online and pushes a button and my grass is cut, why don't i just push that button instead?
What is stopping you doing it yourself?
What is stopping you doing it yourself?
exactly. you are missing my point and getting my point at the same time.
why should we pay someone to cheat with ai when we can do it instead.
and i say this while writing in a terminal that ai made.
You are paying for a product/service. Labour is expended by someone
else to provide it. HOW they do it, and how much labour is their
issue, not yours.
You get the product/service.
All that AI did was reduce the labour on their part. LIKE ALL OTHER TECHNOLOGY.
What next, the Pizza delivery guy "cheated" because he drove a car
and didn't walk?
You are paying for a product/service. Labour is expended by someone
else to provide it. HOW they do it, and how much labour is their
issue, not yours.
You get the product/service.
that's why people are going to lose jobs. why should i pay you 10k to do something when i know what you're going to do. you'll type it into ai and just give it to me. I can do that.
All that AI did was reduce the labour on their part. LIKE ALL OTHER TECHNOLOGY.
it almost entirely reduced the human element.
there is no skill involved. ai's been trained and it learns every second.
I don't need someone to do what i can do. i need someone to do what i can't do.
What next, the Pizza delivery guy "cheated" because he drove a car
and didn't walk?
I always request my pizza guy run the entire way or he loses his 2 dollar tip.
A lot of people are doing pointless work anyway. A lot of "jobs"
are just sending emails back and forth, compliance, administrative
crap or services people don't really need, but pay for because
its cheap enough for now (like doordash, ubereats)
New jobs will come though. The system is good at making us dependent
on a wage so we can be controlled
MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-
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Re: Re: ai shit from bbs peop
By: Boraxman to MRO on Sun Nov 01 2026 01:13 pm
A lot of people are doing pointless work anyway. A lot of "jobs"
are just sending emails back and forth, compliance, administrative
crap or services people don't really need, but pay for because
its cheap enough for now (like doordash, ubereats)
i wouldnt call food delivery a job. it's more like robbing peter to pay paul.
you have to pay for gas, it's hard on your car. you can get in an accident. also you are a contractor and you have to give like half your money to taxes.
New jobs will come though. The system is good at making us dependent
on a wage so we can be controlled
skilled professions won't really be affected by AI.
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