AI NEEDS SO MUCH POWER, IT'S MAKING YOURS WORSE (18 MINUTE READ) [16]

AI data centers are sucking up huge amounts of power and possibly
distorting the formal flow of electricity for millions of Americans.

[16] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-ai-power-home-appliances/?accessTo ken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQX J0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTczNTUxMTU3OCwiZXhwIjoxNzM2MTE2Mzc4LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTUDVUU zhUMEFGQjQwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJFQTExNDNDNTM4NEE0RUY5QTg5RjJEN0IxMTg2MzcwOSJ9 .4iEtoCaDW4r-9Fo5j42r69d1Za7JvnD2rO2MO-M_llc&utm_source=tldrnewsletter

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AI NEEDS SO MUCH POWER, IT'S MAKING YOURS WORSE (18 MINUTE READ) [16]

AI data centers are sucking up huge amounts of power and possibly distorting the formal flow of electricity for millions of Americans.

It sounds like a AI is becoming an excuse for electric bills going up.

"Because of AI.."

AI ate my homework.

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AI NEEDS SO MUCH POWER, IT'S MAKING YOURS WORSE (18 MINUTE READ) [16]

AI data centers are sucking up huge amounts of power and possibly distorting the formal flow of electricity for millions of Americans.

It sounds like a AI is becoming an excuse for electric bills going up.

"Because of AI.."

AI ate my homework.

That is what I thought, at first. That, and the same left-leaning tech
folks who blame cow farts won't see any issue with their AI data centers
eating up power so that Alexa or Siri can give them better answers to
queries about cow farts.

However, that was not actually what the article was about. I read a few paragraphs. I am not an electrical engineer, but apparently living near
one of these data centers puts your local grid at risk, and can also potentially do damage inside your home. It has something to do with the
steady wavelengths that the power normally travels in being disrupted.


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"Because of AI.."

AI ate my homework.

That is what I thought, at first. That, and the same left-leaning tech folks who blame cow farts won't see any issue with their AI data centers eating up power so that Alexa or Siri can give them better answers to queries about cow farts.

I'm getting mixed signals from the media about AI. It's either wonderful, or it's going to kill us all (but definitely not both.)

However, that was not actually what the article was about. I read a few paragraphs. I am not an electrical engineer, but apparently living near one of these data centers puts your local grid at risk, and can also potentially do damage inside your home. It has something to do with the steady wavelengths that the power normally travels in being disrupted.

It's just that there are other things that consume lots of electricity that can sprout up in any neighborhood (besides AI, like steel mills or other industrial plants.) Our local grids are always at risk.

I understand that data centers can consume a lot, but I'm still in the dark about how AI demands more electric than normal webservers.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

I'm getting mixed signals from the media about AI. It's either
wonderful, or it's going to kill us all (but definitely not both.)

Oh, no. Probably both.

Example:
Hospitals are moving toward AI systems that let them monitor patients. This means fewer people are needed to monitor because the AI alerts only for patients who need it. Wonderful (since it help keeps health care costs down).

But then people become dependent on it and the AI has a bug which **doesn't** alert for some things. So patients start dying "mysteriously".

It's just that there are other things that consume lots of electricity

Oh, like electric cars?

I understand that data centers can consume a lot, but I'm still in the dark about how AI demands more electric than normal webservers.

Think web servers are only really active when in use. But AI servers are active all the time. A simple explanation, but serves to understand why they need more electricity.

Also, since they are running "hot" all the time, they need more cooling - which requires more power too.


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That is what I thought, at first. That, and the same left-leaning tech folks who blame cow farts won't see any issue with their AI data centers eating up power so that Alexa or Siri can give them better answers to queries about cow farts.

I'm getting mixed signals from the media about AI. It's either wonderful, or it's going to kill us all (but definitely not both.)

I am having a discussion in DoveNet TechTalk where the other party brought
up how AI has sort of been used for years in their field. It provided
various mathematical and data point information that was accurate. It is
when they try to get AI to do things that require it to "think like a
human," rather than a computer, is where they are getting into trouble.

However, that was not actually what the article was about. I read a few paragraphs. I am not an electrical engineer, but apparently living near one of these data centers puts your local grid at risk, and can also potentially do damage inside your home. It has something to do with the steady wavelengths that the power normally travels in being disrupted.

It's just that there are other things that consume lots of electricity that

an

sprout up in any neighborhood (besides AI, like steel mills or other

ndustrial

plants.) Our local grids are always at risk.

I understand that data centers can consume a lot, but I'm still in the dark >about how AI demands more electric than normal webservers.

Webservers comsume electric for sure, but they don't do a lot of processor intense work. The processors in an AI datacenter are going to be different
-- think more "heavy duty" -- and the machines are going to pull a lot more power than a machine that serves up web pages.

For industrial plants, the power companies are probably taking the extra
draw into account. For a "data center," they may not realize how much
power the owner is actually planning to consume so they may treat it like
any other office facility.

There were probably details in the article that neither of us read that
would shed more light on it. The article was somewhat technical and, not
being an electrical engineer, the parts I read took some pondering.


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Example:
Hospitals are moving toward AI systems that let them monitor patients. This means fewer people are needed to monitor because the AI alerts only for patients who need it. Wonderful (since it help keeps health care costs down).

I think that's a good example, but I still don't understand the difference between "AI" and a regular automated process.

It's just that there are other things that consume lots of electricit

Oh, like electric cars?

Yea. I wonder what would happen if everybody had a charging station in their garage, and they all charged their cars at the same time (like overnight.)

I understand that data centers can consume a lot, but I'm still in th dark about how AI demands more electric than normal webservers.

Think web servers are only really active when in use. But AI servers are active all the time. A simple explanation, but serves to understand why they need more electricity.

But there are webservers doing automated processes constantly (the servers are always in use.) Like (for example) when this BBS polls the Fido hub for mail. Some sysops have their BBS polling for mail every 5 seconds. And it's not causing any blackouts. But (for example) the server that hosts Google's AI assistant can cause blackouts? I just don't get it. I'll probably never understand it.

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I am having a discussion in DoveNet TechTalk where the other party
brought up how AI has sort of been used for years in their field. It provided various mathematical and data point information that was accurate. It is when they try to get AI to do things that require it to "think like a human," rather than a computer, is where they are getting into trouble.

Into trouble with electric consumption? (Or into trouble with the programming?)

I understand that data centers can consume a lot, but I'm still in the da >about how AI demands more electric than normal webservers.

Webservers comsume electric for sure, but they don't do a lot of
processor intense work. The processors in an AI datacenter are going to be different -- think more "heavy duty" -- and the machines are going to pull a lot more power than a machine that serves up web pages.

I appreciate your explanation. I just don't understand what constitutes "AI" though, and I don't understand why they would need (for example) more cores, more RAM, or more bandwidth than an average webserver would.

The phrase "AI" is ambiguous. I did a Google search of "Which language is AI written in" and it said "Python," but is that accurate? It seems like there are better programming languages to use for tasks like emulating human thoughts.

For industrial plants, the power companies are probably taking the extra draw into account. For a "data center," they may not realize how much power the owner is actually planning to consume so they may treat it like any other office facility.

I get what you're saying, and it's a good guess, but to get to the bottom of this I'll have to (someday) learn why AI programs are more resource dependent than others.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

I think that's a good example, but I still don't understand the
difference between "AI" and a regular automated process.

An automated process can only handle situations that its programmer thought of. An AI can handle unexpected situations.

Yea. I wonder what would happen if everybody had a charging station in their garage, and they all charged their cars at the same time (like overnight.)

The grid hurts. It's already happening in areas that has a large number of electric cars.

But there are webservers doing automated processes constantly (the
servers are always in use.) Like (for example) when this BBS polls the Fido hub for mail. Some sysops have their BBS polling for mail every 5 seconds. And it's not causing any blackouts. But (for example) the
server that hosts Google's AI assistant can cause blackouts? I just
don't get it. I'll probably never understand it.

You're thinking in human terms. 5 seconds is eons to a computer.

Imagine your computer, all cores, running at 100% use for days.


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I am having a discussion in DoveNet TechTalk where the other party brought up how AI has sort of been used for years in their field. It provided various mathematical and data point information that was accurate. It is when they try to get AI to do things that require it to "think like a human," rather than a computer, is where they are getting into trouble.

Into trouble with electric consumption? (Or into trouble with the

rogramming?)

Into trouble with the actual results being incorrect.

Webservers comsume electric for sure, but they don't do a lot of processor intense work. The processors in an AI datacenter are going to be different -- think more "heavy duty" -- and the machines are going to pull a lot more power than a machine that serves up web pages.

I appreciate your explanation. I just don't understand what constitutes "AI" though, and I don't understand why they would need (for example) more cores, more RAM, or more bandwidth than an average webserver would.

Because the processes behind it require a lot more "thought" by the
computer, for lack of a better term. Serving up a web page requires little thought. Making decisions that a human brain might make requires a lot more thought.

In comparison, if you are doing a job that requires you to pick something
up out of one pile and put it in another, that will not be very mentally taxing. OTOH, if you have to pick up something in one pile and then decide which pile it goes in, that requires a little more brain power.

Doing the above while keeping count of how many you put in each pile, and knowing to send the pile along and start a new one whenever that pile
reaches a count of 20 requires a little more brain power still.

The more complex the task the AI is asked to complete, the more "brain
power" it will take. So, it needs more complicated, more advanced, and
likely more power hungry CPUs, GPUs, etc.

The phrase "AI" is ambiguous. I did a Google search of "Which language is AI written in" and it said "Python," but is that accurate? It seems like there

r

better programming languages to use for tasks like emulating human thoughts.

I would assume it could be programmed in any language. Python is one of
the hot languages these days. Rust is another one. I have no idea which
would be better to code an AI application in.

I get what you're saying, and it's a good guess, but to get to the bottom of this I'll have to (someday) learn why AI programs are more resource dependent than others.

It would be the more complex decisions they are asked to make.


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I think that's a good example, but I still don't understand the difference between "AI" and a regular automated process.

The decision tree for an "automated process" would be a lot simpler. Like
it monitors for one things and then makes decision A or B based on the findings. Today's "AI" would have a much more complicated decision tree.

What you are calling an "automated process" might very well be an example
of simple AI, or what people used to call "AI." What most talking heads
mean when they say "AI" today is stuff that, in the past, would have been considered science fiction (like self-driving cars, or the IBM Watson
computer that played on Jeopardy).

Oh, like electric cars?

Yea. I wonder what would happen if everybody had a charging station in their garage, and they all charged their cars at the same time (like overnight.)

Probably a similar issue. The difference, though, would be that a charging station should pull a consistent current while the car is hooked up because
it is only doing one process (charging the car).

If you plugged that car into an "AI outlet," it might charge the car while performing diagnostics, updating the car's onboard computer, making calculations re: mileage and other effenciencies, using the GPS data to
create a map, all while also dealing with any issues it might run into
while performing these tasks.

Even then, one "AI outlet" by itself probably causes no harm, but a large
city full of them (or a data center full of machines doing similar things)
just might.

"AI outlet" is something I just made up, BTW, but it wouldn't surprise me
if such things are not on someone's radar.

But there are webservers doing automated processes constantly (the servers

re

always in use.) Like (for example) when this BBS polls the Fido hub for mail. Some sysops have their BBS polling for mail every 5 seconds. And it's not causing any blackouts. But (for example) the server that hosts Google's AI assistant can cause blackouts? I just don't get it. I'll probably never understand it.

Those are all simple processes using simpler hardware. If the BBSes were
all running on equipment meant for AI processing, and were actually using
the equipment to its potential, that would be the difference.

I am not so sure that the danger is blackouts as much as it is ruining your home appliances and possibly starting fires.

It is like what Ron said in a reply before this one... you have to imagine processes that would cause your BBS PC to run at 100% for several days.
That is what AI machines are built for, and they are built with high-end,
more powerful and power-hungry processors.


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server that hosts Google's AI assistant can cause blackouts? I just don't get it. I'll probably never understand it.

You're thinking in human terms. 5 seconds is eons to a computer.

Imagine your computer, all cores, running at 100% use for days.

It sounds like a waste of electric. I haven't seen anything good come out of it yet. It's just opening doors for big tech, Democrats, the elite, and the electric companies.

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though, and I don't understand why they would need (for example) more co more RAM, or more bandwidth than an average webserver would.

Because the processes behind it require a lot more "thought" by the computer, for lack of a better term. Serving up a web page requires little thought. Making decisions that a human brain might make requires
a lot more thought.

This makes sense. I'm just underwhelmed by what I've seen so far, like the Google AI assistant. I'm sure that AI is being used in more complicated scenarios.

The more complex the task the AI is asked to complete, the more "brain power" it will take. So, it needs more complicated, more advanced, and likely more power hungry CPUs, GPUs, etc.

Maybe it can be improved in the future, to use less power.

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If you plugged that car into an "AI outlet," it might charge the car
while performing diagnostics, updating the car's onboard computer, making calculations re: mileage and other effenciencies, using the GPS data to create a map, all while also dealing with any issues it might run into while performing these tasks.

I like this example. I'm so sick of hearing mechanics say "I don't know why the check engine light is on because the code can mean lots of different things." We need AI in cars.

I am not so sure that the danger is blackouts as much as it is ruining your home appliances and possibly starting fires.

I don't doubt the danger, but that's another concept that will be difficult for me to understand :)

It is like what Ron said in a reply before this one... you have to
imagine processes that would cause your BBS PC to run at 100% for
several days. That is what AI machines are built for, and they are built with high-end, more powerful and power-hungry processors.

Now I want to try out one of those processors - but to do less intelligent stuff with it.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

It sounds like a waste of electric.

It's only a waste if someone doesn't want to pay for it. And there seems to be many people who want to pay for it - or are paying for the promises that it offers.

The market will shake this one out, though.

I haven't seen anything good come out of it yet.

I've seen some good, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done still
to make it useful.

Then there are the useless, toy stuff that places are offering (ChatGPT, Grok).
Fun to play with, but it gets tiring quickly. But that's mainly because people don't know what to use AI for (except, maybe, creating fake topless photos of celebs :) ).

It's just opening doors for big tech, Democrats, the
elite, and the electric companies.

It's the other way around. The Elitists always look for institutions to infiltrate and it's easiest to infiltrate at the start. They already did that with Google's AI. People found Elitist biases and, then, stopped using it. Google, of course, says that they corrected it, but really they just didn't make it as noticable.

The electric companies aren't benefiting much since they are kept so locked down by the Elitists (climate change!). They are just trying to keep the grid working.


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It's just opening doors for big tech, Democrats, the
elite, and the electric companies.

It's the other way around. The Elitists always look for institutions to infiltrate and it's easiest to infiltrate at the start. They already
did that with Google's AI. People found Elitist biases and, then,
stopped using it. Google, of course, says that they corrected it, but really they just didn't make it as noticable.

What good have you seen AI do though? I've heard a few good stories about it (like it being used to help diagnose diseases) but I haven't seen it in action. The heart-warming news stories aren't enough for me.

I hope you're right about "the elitists ruined it." I like how Google's Gemini gives me good advice with my queries for javascript "how-to's" but for everything else (non-developer stuff) it's been lousy.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

What good have you seen AI do though? I've heard a few good stories
about it (like it being used to help diagnose diseases) but I haven't
seen it in action. The heart-warming news stories aren't enough for me.

You have to be inside the big corporations to see AI working at something more than a toy. The first "real" AI stuff is not for public consumption.

I hope you're right about "the elitists ruined it."

It really hurt Google when someone asked the AI to make a picture of George Washington and it produced a picture that was more like Frederick Douglas. The bias became blindingly clear and the people who would use it went on the defensive.

I like how Google's
Gemini gives me good advice with my queries for javascript "how-to's"
but for everything else (non-developer stuff) it's been lousy.

Like I said, it's all about the focus of the AI. But even the developer stuff isn't too good. I asked ChatGPT about the MBASIC command to open a random access file in CP/M-80 and it gave me just some junk back. :)


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I hope you're right about "the elitists ruined it."

It really hurt Google when someone asked the AI to make a picture of George Washington and it produced a picture that was more like Frederick Douglas. The bias became blindingly clear and the people who would use
it went on the defensive.

Another thing that might be ruining AI is all the celebrities whining about it. They're showing a fake concern about being replaced and/or having their work stolen by AI. (Those same people who said that we needed to elect Biden or else the world would end.)

Gemini gives me good advice with my queries for javascript "how-to's" but for everything else (non-developer stuff) it's been lousy.

Like I said, it's all about the focus of the AI. But even the developer stuff isn't too good. I asked ChatGPT about the MBASIC command to open
a random access file in CP/M-80 and it gave me just some junk back. :)

Javascript is a lot simpler than BASIC, so it's probably easier for Gemini to disect the info from W3schools and re-word it with a flashy star-shaped symbol to the left of it.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

Another thing that might be ruining AI is all the celebrities whining about it. They're showing a fake concern about being replaced and/or having their work stolen by AI. (Those same people who said that we
needed to elect Biden or else the world would end.)

That concern has been around a long time, though.

There was some commercials done a while back starring a celebrity (sorry, memory is fuzzy) that had died a while ago. Several people (but no one in the public) were outraged about it.

Javascript is a lot simpler than BASIC, so it's probably easier for
Gemini to disect the info from W3schools and re-word it with a flashy star-shaped symbol to the left of it.

No. BASIC is simpler than Javascript. But the AI would have had more training on Javascript than BASIC.


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